HIRLAM (High Resolution Limited Area Model) is an operational NWP model, whose data assimilation and parametrizations related to snow and ice are being modified and tested in the conditions of winter 2009-2010. The new methods are shown to solve some old problems related to excess cooling of ice-covered surfaces and to too cold spring days in the model. If the model knows where on the sea and lakes there is ice, it is able to produce realistic forecasts. However, it is not easy to describe the ice extent when only conventional (SYNOP) observations and climatological information is available. Some problems and possible solutions are presented and discussed in the presentation.